Hi Everyone! Some of you have asked me about the foil ring used to adapt large Dutch ovens so they can bake like the required 2-quart size. (The technique is described on page 41 in the book.) Yesterday I posted two Google links but the sharing is going to be a challenge. So I'm putting them on my IG feed @ourdailybowl with the #bittmanbread tag so you can find them either path. (Thanks, Naomi, for the smart idea!)
Hi Everyone! So excited by your enthusiasm and questions! Let me try to answer them all in one place by clarifying why the Bittman Bread process is a little different than what you might be used to or have researched elsewhere. Here goes:
--You can make a fresh starter based on the recipe here or the Beginner Bread directions in the book; or you can convert your current starter to whole wheat. There are detailed directions and photos in the book about building and maintaining our starter from all three situations.
--Once bubbling, the starter lives in the refrigerator. So you only need to feed it or bake every 7 to 10 days. (As Scott does, too, as he describes below.)
--Because the starter lives in the fridge the leavening power is less active than that of a constantly fed one that lives at room temperature. Some might describe this state as what they're used to use or call "discard." But maintaining and feeding it our way is what allows such flexibility in your baking schedule and frequency.
--For the recipes in this book, we use it straight from the fridge to start every recipe with what we call a "jumpstarter." (The only exception are the Crumby Cookies, which are made from dried breadcrumbs; we've also included several short prose recipes for interesting stuff to do with extra bread.)
--By beginning with the jumpstarter, you're feeding the semi-dormant starter so it's ready to make bread, or any of the other dozens of baked foods in the book. Bakers call this a "preferment" or you may have heard the terms poolish or sponge.
--You always use at least 100g of starter (again from the fridge) to make the jumpstarter. Some recipes call for more. That's usually about 3/4 cup, depending on how thick your starter is.
--When you bake something, you feed the starter to replace what you took out--in some ratio of water to whole wheat flour that depends on the thickness you want to maintain. We explain that with photos and details, too, but usually it's 50/50 or maybe 40/60 with a tad more water than flour.
--So you need to maintain 200-250g starter in a container in the fridge. That way when you take out the 100-200g to begin baking something from Bittman Bread, you always have 100g or so to fuel that replacement feeding.
--If you don't bake in a week or so, yes, you still have to feed the starter and return it to the fridge. One choice is to truly discard that 100g or so you're going to take out for feeding. Whenever you decide not to bake but need to feed the starter, that means you're wasting no more than 1/3 cup flour, far less than if you're trying to maintain a starter on the counter.
--The other option is to use that 100g to bake something in the book besides a loaf of bread. (In addition to all sorts of whole grain boules and sandwich loaves, there are sweet and savory pancakes, waffles, dinner rolls, flat bread, English-style muffins, and cake.) Or even use what you pull off in other so-called "discard" recipes.
--Bittman Bread basic recipe is a relatively small whole grain boule, like 8 inches. It bakes in either a 2-quart Dutch oven or a 5-quart pot fitted with a loose ring of foil in the bottom. A double recipe fills that standard 5-quart pot for what we call Big Bittman Bread. That larger loaf is more the size of bakery bread and is perfect for larger families or gatherings.
--Whole wheat bread keeps better than white: a few days at room temp and then in the fridge for many more if there's any left. We find that it serves 4 or so for a meal; 2 will nibble on it for a couple days; and 1 person will usually finish it in less than a week.
I hope this helps clear up your questions. Or if it raises more, that's fine, too! I'll hop back on tomorrow. Many thanks again to you all!
Added tip: I bought a tall mason jar-type container with a "blackboard" sticker on the side. When I feed my starter I write the date on it with a chalk marker and then put in the fridge. Otherwise it's easy to forget when you last fed it.
Hi Julia. Not quite exactly like that. The safest way to feed a starter you're not using so that it will stay active is to weigh some amount of the starter -- say 50grams -- and then feed it equal weight of flour and water (so 50g each).
You can up the water to 60g if you want the starter a little soupy. That will leave you with 150g (or 160g) of starter for your next Bittman Bread bake. If you want to have a little extra or plan to make something that needs more than 100g starter, then reserve and feed 75 or even 100g of starter.
The starter you remove is considered a "discard."
Once you get the hang of how your use your starter and how active it is, you can feed it less. But if your starter is already not very active from being in the fridge for a week or more, and you've got say 200g of it and you're only feeding it 50g each, it will likely gobble that up pretty quickly. Which means you've got to use it soon, or feed it more soon.
Maybe it's crazy to think of starters this way but I find it helpful: They are living things that require enough calories to survive. And bigger starters require bigger feedings.
Thanks Kerri. Makes sense that the discard is separate from the starter that we maintain for bread. I think I was under the impression being that since y’all discourage throwing discard away, that it all stayed together, and I couldn’t quite understand how that worked. 😊
Oh my. I may have muddied things more! Let me try to be more clear. Because once again you’re on the right track, Julia!
If you baked once a week or every 10 days tops there is no need for discard. You take the starter out of the fridge, use what you need, and replace it with flour and water. This assumes there’s about 100g in your jar before feeding. So you’re always baking and replacing only.
If you don’t bake and you need to feed your starter, then I suggest you do as described in my last comment. Add you actually would discard the discard. You don’t save it.
This is how our method of keeping the starter in the fridge (and feeding it AFTER you pull some for your bake) is different than the other way—maintaining a starter on the counter, discarding some to make room in the jar, and feeding it before baking. I totally see why this is confusing!
If you do indeed use what you remove to make a jumpstarter and bake something from the book then that’s just part of our normal process. But more traditional recipes would call that a discard, since the starter hasn’t been fed in a while and is less active.
Thanks for being patient with my jumble of an explanation.
I made my first 'real' loaf last night (after the first loaf last week and working on the starter for the last few days). It was AWESOME! I have tried sourdough a few times in the past and failed abysmally. I bake lots of breads, challah, pitas, etc but have never succeeded with sourdough. this is LIFE CHANGING! Even my kids loved it (though they were skeptical when they saw the dark brown color :) ). THANK YOU!
I do have one question: I am vegan and would LOVE to find a good butter alternative that is not fake butter. I am familiar with some good fake butter options, but I'm looking for something that is not trying to BE butter. Do you know of any homemade or store bought vegan options, perhaps something with olive oil or other fat, so I don't have to feel sad missing out on the joy of buttered bread? Thanks for any ideas.
Rivki! Thank you so much for sharing your enthusiasm. Mark and I are so grateful for all the support. And thrilled to be changing the way people think about whole grain sourdough baking.
Since all of the recipes in the book that call for butter also call for eggs, here are possible substitutes for both:
-Liquid oil isn't always the best solution for butter though it's great for pancakes and waffles. Use a good-quality vegetable oil like grapeseed, sunflower, or safflower. In cases like cookies and cakes and the rich sandwich bread, I suggest a solid, non-hydrogenated shortening based on tropical oils. These usually contain fewer strange ingredients than "vegan butters." Spectrum makes one but there are others, too.
-For eggs in bread baking you might try soft silken tofu. Drain any water and whisk 1/4 cup for each egg in a small bowl until it's smooth.
And now we have a question for you: Might we please use your 1st paragraph for a social media post? Without your name if you prefer. With your name, we could even tag you if you're on FaceBook and/or Instagram. No pressure. We want everyone to feel comfortable chatting here!
You certainly can use my comments in social media! @rivkilocker on Instagram
Thanks for the input on butter substitutes! Sorry my question wasn’t totally clear. I’m wondering if you have any ideas for something to use to ‘butter’ my bread that isn’t butter. There are few things I miss since going vegan but buttered bread is one of them. Now that I’ve discovered attainable homemade sourdough, butter seems even more important! Wondering if you have any suggestions.
Ooooh. We were wondering about that "buttering" vs "butter substitute" question after I posted my reply. Now that I understand, here's another idea to try: keep a small jar or container of good tasting olive oil in the freezer and use that as a bread spread.
Thank you for your cheerful authorization! Be on the lookout!
Wow. This bread has taken up a lot of time these past few days and still no bread! I'm about to bake it and hope it's worth the wait. I got hooked on the starter and pancake recipes (yum to the pancakes!) and have never baked a single loaf of bread in my life. Not sure I can spend this much time on one loaf of bread but we'll see. Thanks.
Thank you, Heather, for your diligence and trust in the process for your first loaf of bread! It will get much easier once the starter moves to the fridge and comes out for your bakes then goes back in. Easier than messing with yeasted breads, we think. And you've got the Bittman Project community cheering for you! Keep us posted please.
Hi again. Sorry for the double post but I'm obsessing a bit (in a good way) and wanted to give you a little more info. My starter and jumpstarter were quite bubbly. The dough rose significantly between each fold and the sheen was there. My husband who has experience baking bread was impressed with the bubbles and pre-bake rise. He agrees that the cooked bread's rise is not really there - very dense crumb (I only know that from the Great British Bake Off since I have zero experience with bread).
Hi Kerri.. Well...flavor great, rise not so great. I followed the instructions carefully, except I did not measure in grams. Is that why? Oh, and I didn't have sharp enough kitchen scissors so the X at the top was a bit difficult and inconsistent. Also I only got a half dome, which makes no sense to me. Oven problem? X problem? I live in San Francisco so my kitchen tends to run cold. Do I need to let everything sit for even longer?!
Good morning, Heather! Thank you for sharing. This may sound crazy but I sort of can't believe you got such excellent results on your very first loaf of bread you've ever baked. And with a sourdough starter no less. So big huge congrats!
Thank you for the added detail. Now let's troubleshoot for the next time:
--First so I'm clear what recipe you did...you made a 100% whole wheat Bittman Bread loaf, or something else or some variation with white or other flour?
--Are you using a 2-quart Dutch oven or rigging the bottom with a foil ring in a regular 4- to 5- (or even 6-quart) pot? (The work-around we describe on page 41 in a box titled "The Pot." )
--It's not impossible to bake by volume. Though once you start weighing instead of measuring, you will improve your odds of success. It's just so much more precise.
--I live in the PNW and the kitchen is always pretty cold so that shouldn't matter too much. I would still stick to 30 min between the folds. But you might need to let it sit a smidge longer in the pot. On the other hand--and this is the annoying thing about troubleshooting--the dough might have been ready before you baked it. Until you get the hang of it be sure to do the wet-finger test described in Reading the Dough (p 84)
--In fact that whole section and the photos about hydrating the dough are really important and something you will only learn by feel. Sounds like your dough was plenty lively and you had the telltale sheen. Was it stretchy and elastic? Or did it tear fairly easily when you did the folds? If it tore easily you MIGHT have been able to push the water you added during the folds a little to give it more volume. Depends on the flour.
--You don't have to say the brand but did you use a national whole wheat flour or something more specialized or locally ground?
Let's start here and if you don't mind, we'll use our conversation to help the rest of the community. (I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to keep up with everyone's individual questions so this might be a good solution.)
Thanks for the helpful explanation. I'm a little bit amazed and a lot nervous that my lack of bread baking skill will be used for the rest of the community. But, I appreciate the attention to my questions from such a skilled bread baker.
So the big aha for me was the info on the dutch oven. I thought I read everything carefully (er, enough) but I missed the crucial info about the dutch oven. Our DO is over 4 quarts and I didn't see the instructions about how to modify it. So will either do the foil ring or get a smaller DO before my next bake.
My dough was stretchy and elastic - if anything I was worried it had too much water but it did look like what was pictured and, again, the rise between folds seemed significant to me , but what do I know?
Other questions about the starter, while I have you:
1. If I put it straight into the fridge after feeding as described in the book, does it have to sit for a whole week or can I pull it out sooner?
2. The starter I now have in the fridge has a weird "split," where there's a straight horizontal line of bubbly stuff running across the clear container about 3/4 inches from the bottom. The starter takes up about 5 inches of space, so it looks like normalish (again what do I know?) starter at the bottom, then a thin line of bubbles on top of that, then normalish starter above the bubbles. it just looks wrong or weird. I'm wondering if I should toss it and start over?
Oooh. Heather. I had a feeling that might have been it since you had so many other things in your favor. Let's call that an easy fix!
Now quick answers about the starter:
1. No need to sit the full week; that's our recommended max for feeding or baking--at least at first. You can bake again the same day if you want.
2. Sounds like you've got a pretty wet starter going. That's probably water pooling and separating. Just stir or shake it and next time feed it a little more flour than water. (There are three texture photos in the book.) Everyone likes theirs a little different but you won't get any (or as much) separation when the starter is thicker. If it stops bubbling or smells like anything other than yeast mixed with a little alcohol, consider starting over.
Thanks so much, Kerri. Strange that I missed a whole thing on the dutch oven but I think b/c my husband used our DO for Jim Lahey's bread, I just assumed it would work for this one. Plus my life is busy and hectic, so easy to miss some details. I should have time to make a loaf this weekend and will let you know how it goes - if that's OK - and any additional questions. Really appreciate it.
Well, I baked my second loaf on Friday in my new 2 quart dutch over and it came out pretty darn good. I think it will keep getting better the more I play around. Thanks much! p.s., I think a picture of what the prep for a larger DO with a foil ring might be helpful for the community.
Hi Mary, Kerri here. You mean in the pancakes, correct? We haven’t tried all options but generally suggest oat or cashew for their neutral-ish flavor. You may meed to add a little melted butter or oil (like canola, grapessed, or sunflower—that sort of thing if you’re also avoiding butter.) Let us know how it goes!
Kerri's technical response is great so I won't add to it. From a personal POV, since I got a good scale years ago I've become a whole-hearted convert to baking by weight, to where I won't buy a cookbook that's only by volume. I still use teaspoons for things like baking soda but using grams (even for water and other liquids) is so mind-blowingly easier that I won't switch back. I also have a separate gram scale that measures in tenths that I'd bought for coffee and tea measures that I now use for yeast and salt for bread baking, especially since the latter can vary in volume by type and brand.
Side note: I've even started using the scale when I make hot cereal, e.g., Bob's Red Mill products. They give the ratio of water:cereal in cups, and it pretty much always left unabsorbed water. Starting with the cup measures I measured it out in grams and shifted the numbers around a bit until I have the perfect amounts (which I wrote on the bag with a Sharpie).
Not a stupid question at all! It does taking some getting used to but scales are an inexpensive kitchen tool you'll use for other things if you have one.
Volume isn't as accurate way to measure ingredients for baking, especially with whole grains, since how you spoon and measure flour can compact or fluff going into the cup. More nuanced differences too: it can absorb moisture (or dry out as it oxidizes) and different brands are milled slightly differently. We included a sidebar on how to convert. Hope this helps explain the reasoning.
I have a scale and use for all forms of cooking and food preparation. The tare feature means you use a lot fewer measuring implements and have less clean up. A scale is also useful for measuring items that are sticky or semi-solid, e.g. yogurt, mayo, shortening. It is also useful for consistently measuring items that vary a lot in volume depending on handling, e.g. fresh herbs like basil. King Arthur has a good Ingredient Weight Chart in the LEARN section of their website that is quite comprehensive.
Hi Mark & Kerri, I love your book & as I have my own whole wheat starter (without yeast), how much of my starter should I use, & do I still need to make a jump starter? Is your jump starter the same as a levain?
Hi Heather! Kerri here on our behalf. Thank you for your support of the book and whole grain baking! You should be able to use your own whole wheat starter--as long as it lives in the refrigerator, and you feed it as directed in the recipe when you take it out to bake something. And you're right...the jumpstarter is like a preferment like a levain. Our process is different than other methods and works best when you follow the timing as described in the different recipes. If you don't have a 2-quart oven-proof pot to bake the Bittman Bread and the similar boules, then in Chapter 2 there's a workaround for how to fit larger pots with a foil ring to keep the dough from spreading before doming when you start in the cold oven. I keep an eye on comments here and check emails to the main box frequently so keep us posted please!
Hi Neomi, Not to worry. Mark has a shortcut method to make starter without having to bake a starter white-flour loaf. And it works great with less than a packet of non-expired instant yeast.
But first, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing:
The "starter" is the sourdough that gently bubbles away in the fridge. In all the recipes you use the starter--combined with flour and liquid (usually water)--to make the "jumpstarter" that ferments at room temperature for several hours (as described in each of the recipes). After you remove some starter for the jumpstarter, the recipes directions explain how to feed the starter before returning it to the refrigerator where it bubbles away until your next bake.
Hi Kerri, No worry about the name misspell, it happens all the time and people mispronounce it even more than that! ;-) I'm starting a new starter with the recipe you shared, just in case the issue is with the original starter. Fingers crossed. Three questions: 1. What do you usually do with the hooch? Pour it off, mix it back in, make a cocktail (ew)...? 2. Part of the problem may indeed be that I was using a bigger pot and I'm not ready to spring for a 2-quart Lodge yet (though sorely tempted). Do you have any pics of this foil "ring"? I'm having trouble imagining it. 3. Love the starter pancake idea but my spouse and I prefer savory. Could we use the same Bittman Bread pancake recipe but sub salt for the sugar?? I know he has another savory pancake recipe in the book but that one seems different. Thank you so much!
--I'm putting links to two photos of the foil ring at the top of this thread and pinning it because others might also find them useful. Good idea but we can't post photos in the threads, just links so these are up on Google Drive.
--After the starter gets going and moves to the fridge you shouldn't have to discard often if at all if you bake once a week or so. Before that it's not going to be super active so the chemical leavening in the pancake recipe in the book is a good idea. To make it savory just skip the sugar and increase the salt to say "two pinches" or about 1 teaspoon. You fold a cup or so of chopped cooked vegetables into the batter if you'd like, provided they're not wet or saucy. I do encourage you to try the big savory pancake and it's variations. More like a crisp-on-the-outside-custardy-on-inside flatbread with stuff in it.
Keep us posted. In case you haven't considered this, once your starter is bubbling on the counter you should feed it and move it to the fridge until the weekend. Otherwise at room temp, you'll be feeding and discarding daily until your first bake.
Okay, I got to bake the Bittman Bread this weekend and it turned out much better! Since I wasn't scientific about it, it was either the new starter with not-expired yeast and/or the smaller pot (I found one I could use). It still doesn't look quite as pretty or as domed as the ones in the pictures but WAY better than the "biscotti" bread last time ;-) Thank you for your help! Also, I've made the Little Spoon Farm sourdough discard crackers twice now and they are delicious! Thank you for the recommendation.
Oh yes that's what I meant, my "starter." Thank you! I went through the whole process from 'Bittman Bread' and my first loaf was okay (the one I used to make the starter) but didn't ever look like the pictures (tasted great!) Then I tried my second loaf with 100% whole wheat flour and it ended up looking like biscotti. I wish I could upload a picture, it's kind of hilarious. I checked and my Red Star yeast packets have definitely expired (6 mos past date). Although, when I did the yeast test this afternoon with sugar and 1/2 c warm water it did puff up to 1 c. Can yeast be semi-expired?? My starter does bubble but it's kind of a "meh" bubbling. Thank you so much for responding!
Apologies for misspelling your name yesterday...was working with my big thumbs from my phone!
Thank you for the detail, Naomi. Mmmm a biscotti doesn't sound at all right! You're using a 2-quart pot (or fitting a larger pot with a foil ring)? If you still run into challenges after you get a new starter going, be sure to check out the troubleshooting questions we developed. Here's the link handy:
I’m looking forward to my first loaf this evening or tomorrow. I just finished mixing my first jump starter and it’s just now in a wide bottom bowl. I know you mention to cover it to prevent a crust from forming. (My starter formed a crust.) Do you have any guidance/tricks for the best way to cover the jump starter in this large open bowl? Should the plastic or the damp towel come in contact with the starter or should there be an air space? Thanks!
Congratulations on beginning your first loaf! For covering your bowl during the development of the jumpstarter and dough, just draping a wet towel or a sheet or two of plastic over the rim will do the trick. The dough will probably stick if you press down too hard to try to seal the dough without air but with plastic you can sort of line the inside of the bowl closer to the dough if that works best for you.
The starter does best in the fridge in a sealed container. You can adjust the consistency by adding more or less water during feeding, too. See the photos on page 95 at the end of “All About Feeding Your Starter.”
Just baked my first whole wheat loaf. Came out tasting darn good and good looking too! I have just one question: my loaf seems too dense when compared to the pictures in the book and maybe not quite as crusty. I think I can improve on the crust by baking a bit longer on the rack, outside the Dutch oven. I am not sure, however, how to make the bread a bit lighter, fluffier. Any suggestions? BTW, the first, white flour read was great, just the right taste and density.
Hi Marcel, Thanks for your enthusiasm and for updating the community.
First, a bubble to pop: 100% whole wheat bread is always going to be totally different than a loaf made from 100% whole wheat flour. Because the bran and fiber have never been sifted out, the taste and density will not be that same kind of mild and fluffy. We obviously favor whole wheat. And you can and will get more rise and spring--like the bread shown in the book.
You're using a 2-quart pot, correct? Or the foil ring fix for a larger pot discussed in the box on page 41?
Are you using a fairly mainstream whole wheat flour (we talk more about this in Chapter 2) or a specialty flour? If the latter, they can be challenging. Also be sure to check out the section on Reading the Dough on page 84.
If the former than you can try pushing the water a little bit. Be sure to read the captions with the photos in the sections on folding Mark and/or my way. They should give you an idea about how to tell when the dough is properly wet.
Another direction is to try the Mostly White Sourdough Bread variation on page 81. That might be more to your taste--or maybe you'll gradually build back to 100% whole wheat. Or maybe that will be your jam.
Hi Kerri, Thanks for your reply. I did use a 2 quart Dutch oven and King Arthur whole wheat flour. I will try your suggestion of pushing the water and report back.
No one has answered mine and Melissa’s concern about the size of the stored starter required. Is a 250 g starter really necessary? If like us you bake every other week, that’s still a lot of discard, even it you keep the starter in the fridge, as I do. I currently keep about 90g, and when I am going to bake take it out, add 50 g water/50 g flour, use 100 to bake a loaf and put the rest back in the fridge . This has worked for a year, producing good loafs and wasting less starter. Am I doing something wrong? What would you recommend?
Hi Peter. Thanks for following up. I put the answer toward the end of my long response on Nov 28, but maybe that can be clearer: If you only keep 90g you won’t have enough to make even the Bittman Bread; the recipes require 100 to 200 grams starter, depending on what you’re making. That is assuming baking/feeding every week to 10 days. If you feed regularly in between bakes then yes, you will be able to operate on a different margin. The goal is no discarding (unless you’re just starting the starter or trying to revive a long neglected starter). Hope this explains it better.
Just though of this...One potentially confusing thing that might be different than your usual process: With our method, we take starter out to make the “jumpstarter” then feed the starter to replace what we took. Feeding the starter BEFORE removing some for the bake would dilute the quantity of starter used in our recipes while increasing the flour and water. Does that logic sound right?
Haven't seen this question yet. Your book is brilliant and so helpful. My first couple of loaves have come out great. I'd love to get what you call a "broad-bottomed bowl" like the one you use in the book. I have looked a lot, and haven't seen any like the one shown in your pictures. Any suggestions where to buy one? Amazon and Etsy show nothing at all similar. Thanks.
Hi Steve. Wowie! What terrific news! It’s a large pasta serving bowl. Usually they’re broader than mixing bowls and it doesn’t need to be more than 3 inches deep. As long as it’s 8-9 inches across (the size of my non-photogenic vintage bowl at home) you’re fine. The bowl at the shoot was porcelain and about 12 inches. Got it online but can’t remember if it was Amazon or like Pottery Barn. Basic tho.
Thanks so much for your most helpful reply. Knowing to look for a pasta serving bowl rather than a regular bread mixing bowl seems to be the trick. Again, I think your book is fantastic. The photos and instructions are so beautifully done, and I'm having much more success with my starter doing it your way. A real game changer.
I just bought the Bittman Bread Cookbook and am excited to try the folding technique...but am confused by the directions in the book about "folding the dough Mark's way." When you "repeat the folding action going the other direction" (page 64) what does that mean exactly? My guesses:
1. You pat into rectangle, fold into thirds lengthewise, then pat into rectangle and do again and THEN fold in thirds into a square and then pat into a ball?
2. You fold thirds lengthwise, fold thirds into square, then pat into rectangle and repeat and then pat into ball?
Not sure which of these to do and either way not sure what "going in the other direction" would mean. Help please!
HI G. I'm brand new to bread but I think you've got it. I was nervous about it, but then I told myself it's only bread and if I don't do it exactly as pictured, I'll get it close enough, right? After my last fold (2 hours into folding - still getting over that one!), I just flipped the square in my hands and it basically turned itself into a ball. Just make sure you do the 2qt dutch oven or use a foil ring in a bigger DO - the section on DOs is in the beginning of the kitchen tools section and not in the detailed instructions with the bread. Hope this helps!
Hi G.Epstein, Sorry this wasn’t cleared! Good question because it lets me say this: The directions really don’t matter. This dough is almost indestructible and not at all like turning puff pasty. You are correct…Mark does two successive press-and-letter folds, in generally perpendicular directions. Then tucks the edges under to reshape the ball for rest. Hope this helps and thanks for taking our bread for a fold!
OK. I bought the book and can’t wait to bake my first loaf. I currently make mostly white sourdough and am looking forward to the change to whole grain. However, I’ve read the parts of the book on the starter and have a few questions. So you recommend storing 250 g of starter, correct?That seems like a lot. Mine is currently 100g. What would you recommend to do if you don’t bake one week? Take out half the starter and refresh? I usually bake a loaf every other week, so a 250 g starter would seem to entail more waste. Is there any way to make the jumpstarter beginning with a smaller stored starter? Thank you
I want to second Peter's comment. As a single person, I can't make a loaf of bread each week. Although I would love to! So it feels like making sourdough bread involves too much waste. How little starter can I safely maintain?
I keep mine in the fridge so that I don't have to feed it daily (every 7-10 days or so). But there are a lot of recipes out there for starter discard; one of my favorites is discard crackers: https://littlespoonfarm.com/sourdough-discard-crackers/
Also remember that in many baking recipes you can replace some of the flour and water with an equal amount of starter. E.g, if a banana bread uses 200g flour and 60g water, you can use, say, 50g discard and deduct 25 grams water and 25 grams flour.
Since getting my starter going almost two years ago I haven't thrown away any of it.
... just to clarify, the starter discard is there for flavor, not leavening, so it doesn't need to be active. I keep a separate jar in my fridge for the discard, to grab as-needed.
Hi Brit. With this and all the recipes in the book you decide when/if you want to hibernate and for how long up to 24 hours. So the process fits in whatever schedule you happen to need on any given circumstance.
With pancakes and a couple other recipes where you add dairy and/or eggs before cooking, it’s better to so as directed “when you’re ready…”. But you can hibernate any time before that step.
Hi Everyone! Some of you have asked me about the foil ring used to adapt large Dutch ovens so they can bake like the required 2-quart size. (The technique is described on page 41 in the book.) Yesterday I posted two Google links but the sharing is going to be a challenge. So I'm putting them on my IG feed @ourdailybowl with the #bittmanbread tag so you can find them either path. (Thanks, Naomi, for the smart idea!)
Hi Everyone! So excited by your enthusiasm and questions! Let me try to answer them all in one place by clarifying why the Bittman Bread process is a little different than what you might be used to or have researched elsewhere. Here goes:
--You can make a fresh starter based on the recipe here or the Beginner Bread directions in the book; or you can convert your current starter to whole wheat. There are detailed directions and photos in the book about building and maintaining our starter from all three situations.
--Once bubbling, the starter lives in the refrigerator. So you only need to feed it or bake every 7 to 10 days. (As Scott does, too, as he describes below.)
--Because the starter lives in the fridge the leavening power is less active than that of a constantly fed one that lives at room temperature. Some might describe this state as what they're used to use or call "discard." But maintaining and feeding it our way is what allows such flexibility in your baking schedule and frequency.
--For the recipes in this book, we use it straight from the fridge to start every recipe with what we call a "jumpstarter." (The only exception are the Crumby Cookies, which are made from dried breadcrumbs; we've also included several short prose recipes for interesting stuff to do with extra bread.)
--By beginning with the jumpstarter, you're feeding the semi-dormant starter so it's ready to make bread, or any of the other dozens of baked foods in the book. Bakers call this a "preferment" or you may have heard the terms poolish or sponge.
--You always use at least 100g of starter (again from the fridge) to make the jumpstarter. Some recipes call for more. That's usually about 3/4 cup, depending on how thick your starter is.
--When you bake something, you feed the starter to replace what you took out--in some ratio of water to whole wheat flour that depends on the thickness you want to maintain. We explain that with photos and details, too, but usually it's 50/50 or maybe 40/60 with a tad more water than flour.
--So you need to maintain 200-250g starter in a container in the fridge. That way when you take out the 100-200g to begin baking something from Bittman Bread, you always have 100g or so to fuel that replacement feeding.
--If you don't bake in a week or so, yes, you still have to feed the starter and return it to the fridge. One choice is to truly discard that 100g or so you're going to take out for feeding. Whenever you decide not to bake but need to feed the starter, that means you're wasting no more than 1/3 cup flour, far less than if you're trying to maintain a starter on the counter.
--The other option is to use that 100g to bake something in the book besides a loaf of bread. (In addition to all sorts of whole grain boules and sandwich loaves, there are sweet and savory pancakes, waffles, dinner rolls, flat bread, English-style muffins, and cake.) Or even use what you pull off in other so-called "discard" recipes.
--Bittman Bread basic recipe is a relatively small whole grain boule, like 8 inches. It bakes in either a 2-quart Dutch oven or a 5-quart pot fitted with a loose ring of foil in the bottom. A double recipe fills that standard 5-quart pot for what we call Big Bittman Bread. That larger loaf is more the size of bakery bread and is perfect for larger families or gatherings.
--Whole wheat bread keeps better than white: a few days at room temp and then in the fridge for many more if there's any left. We find that it serves 4 or so for a meal; 2 will nibble on it for a couple days; and 1 person will usually finish it in less than a week.
I hope this helps clear up your questions. Or if it raises more, that's fine, too! I'll hop back on tomorrow. Many thanks again to you all!
K
Added tip: I bought a tall mason jar-type container with a "blackboard" sticker on the side. When I feed my starter I write the date on it with a chalk marker and then put in the fridge. Otherwise it's easy to forget when you last fed it.
So to feed my starter when I’m not baking bread, just add 50/50gr or 50/60gr flour/water to the existing starter? I don’t need to remove any?
Hi Julia. Not quite exactly like that. The safest way to feed a starter you're not using so that it will stay active is to weigh some amount of the starter -- say 50grams -- and then feed it equal weight of flour and water (so 50g each).
You can up the water to 60g if you want the starter a little soupy. That will leave you with 150g (or 160g) of starter for your next Bittman Bread bake. If you want to have a little extra or plan to make something that needs more than 100g starter, then reserve and feed 75 or even 100g of starter.
The starter you remove is considered a "discard."
Once you get the hang of how your use your starter and how active it is, you can feed it less. But if your starter is already not very active from being in the fridge for a week or more, and you've got say 200g of it and you're only feeding it 50g each, it will likely gobble that up pretty quickly. Which means you've got to use it soon, or feed it more soon.
Maybe it's crazy to think of starters this way but I find it helpful: They are living things that require enough calories to survive. And bigger starters require bigger feedings.
Thanks Kerri. Makes sense that the discard is separate from the starter that we maintain for bread. I think I was under the impression being that since y’all discourage throwing discard away, that it all stayed together, and I couldn’t quite understand how that worked. 😊
Oh my. I may have muddied things more! Let me try to be more clear. Because once again you’re on the right track, Julia!
If you baked once a week or every 10 days tops there is no need for discard. You take the starter out of the fridge, use what you need, and replace it with flour and water. This assumes there’s about 100g in your jar before feeding. So you’re always baking and replacing only.
If you don’t bake and you need to feed your starter, then I suggest you do as described in my last comment. Add you actually would discard the discard. You don’t save it.
This is how our method of keeping the starter in the fridge (and feeding it AFTER you pull some for your bake) is different than the other way—maintaining a starter on the counter, discarding some to make room in the jar, and feeding it before baking. I totally see why this is confusing!
If you do indeed use what you remove to make a jumpstarter and bake something from the book then that’s just part of our normal process. But more traditional recipes would call that a discard, since the starter hasn’t been fed in a while and is less active.
Thanks for being patient with my jumble of an explanation.
Thanks Kerri! I get it now, appreciate you taking the time to explain.
I made my first 'real' loaf last night (after the first loaf last week and working on the starter for the last few days). It was AWESOME! I have tried sourdough a few times in the past and failed abysmally. I bake lots of breads, challah, pitas, etc but have never succeeded with sourdough. this is LIFE CHANGING! Even my kids loved it (though they were skeptical when they saw the dark brown color :) ). THANK YOU!
I do have one question: I am vegan and would LOVE to find a good butter alternative that is not fake butter. I am familiar with some good fake butter options, but I'm looking for something that is not trying to BE butter. Do you know of any homemade or store bought vegan options, perhaps something with olive oil or other fat, so I don't have to feel sad missing out on the joy of buttered bread? Thanks for any ideas.
Rivki! Thank you so much for sharing your enthusiasm. Mark and I are so grateful for all the support. And thrilled to be changing the way people think about whole grain sourdough baking.
Since all of the recipes in the book that call for butter also call for eggs, here are possible substitutes for both:
-Liquid oil isn't always the best solution for butter though it's great for pancakes and waffles. Use a good-quality vegetable oil like grapeseed, sunflower, or safflower. In cases like cookies and cakes and the rich sandwich bread, I suggest a solid, non-hydrogenated shortening based on tropical oils. These usually contain fewer strange ingredients than "vegan butters." Spectrum makes one but there are others, too.
-For eggs in bread baking you might try soft silken tofu. Drain any water and whisk 1/4 cup for each egg in a small bowl until it's smooth.
And now we have a question for you: Might we please use your 1st paragraph for a social media post? Without your name if you prefer. With your name, we could even tag you if you're on FaceBook and/or Instagram. No pressure. We want everyone to feel comfortable chatting here!
You certainly can use my comments in social media! @rivkilocker on Instagram
Thanks for the input on butter substitutes! Sorry my question wasn’t totally clear. I’m wondering if you have any ideas for something to use to ‘butter’ my bread that isn’t butter. There are few things I miss since going vegan but buttered bread is one of them. Now that I’ve discovered attainable homemade sourdough, butter seems even more important! Wondering if you have any suggestions.
Thanks!
Ooooh. We were wondering about that "buttering" vs "butter substitute" question after I posted my reply. Now that I understand, here's another idea to try: keep a small jar or container of good tasting olive oil in the freezer and use that as a bread spread.
Thank you for your cheerful authorization! Be on the lookout!
Great idea! I have some lovely olive oil I just picked up at a local shop. I’ll try that! Thanks!
I spread Baba Ganouj like butter on bread & eat it nearly every day.
Great idea! Thanks!
Wow. This bread has taken up a lot of time these past few days and still no bread! I'm about to bake it and hope it's worth the wait. I got hooked on the starter and pancake recipes (yum to the pancakes!) and have never baked a single loaf of bread in my life. Not sure I can spend this much time on one loaf of bread but we'll see. Thanks.
Thank you, Heather, for your diligence and trust in the process for your first loaf of bread! It will get much easier once the starter moves to the fridge and comes out for your bakes then goes back in. Easier than messing with yeasted breads, we think. And you've got the Bittman Project community cheering for you! Keep us posted please.
Hi again. Sorry for the double post but I'm obsessing a bit (in a good way) and wanted to give you a little more info. My starter and jumpstarter were quite bubbly. The dough rose significantly between each fold and the sheen was there. My husband who has experience baking bread was impressed with the bubbles and pre-bake rise. He agrees that the cooked bread's rise is not really there - very dense crumb (I only know that from the Great British Bake Off since I have zero experience with bread).
Hi Kerri.. Well...flavor great, rise not so great. I followed the instructions carefully, except I did not measure in grams. Is that why? Oh, and I didn't have sharp enough kitchen scissors so the X at the top was a bit difficult and inconsistent. Also I only got a half dome, which makes no sense to me. Oven problem? X problem? I live in San Francisco so my kitchen tends to run cold. Do I need to let everything sit for even longer?!
Good morning, Heather! Thank you for sharing. This may sound crazy but I sort of can't believe you got such excellent results on your very first loaf of bread you've ever baked. And with a sourdough starter no less. So big huge congrats!
Thank you for the added detail. Now let's troubleshoot for the next time:
--First so I'm clear what recipe you did...you made a 100% whole wheat Bittman Bread loaf, or something else or some variation with white or other flour?
--Are you using a 2-quart Dutch oven or rigging the bottom with a foil ring in a regular 4- to 5- (or even 6-quart) pot? (The work-around we describe on page 41 in a box titled "The Pot." )
--It's not impossible to bake by volume. Though once you start weighing instead of measuring, you will improve your odds of success. It's just so much more precise.
--I live in the PNW and the kitchen is always pretty cold so that shouldn't matter too much. I would still stick to 30 min between the folds. But you might need to let it sit a smidge longer in the pot. On the other hand--and this is the annoying thing about troubleshooting--the dough might have been ready before you baked it. Until you get the hang of it be sure to do the wet-finger test described in Reading the Dough (p 84)
--In fact that whole section and the photos about hydrating the dough are really important and something you will only learn by feel. Sounds like your dough was plenty lively and you had the telltale sheen. Was it stretchy and elastic? Or did it tear fairly easily when you did the folds? If it tore easily you MIGHT have been able to push the water you added during the folds a little to give it more volume. Depends on the flour.
--You don't have to say the brand but did you use a national whole wheat flour or something more specialized or locally ground?
Let's start here and if you don't mind, we'll use our conversation to help the rest of the community. (I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to keep up with everyone's individual questions so this might be a good solution.)
Thank you again, Heather!
K
Hi again Kerri,
Thanks for the helpful explanation. I'm a little bit amazed and a lot nervous that my lack of bread baking skill will be used for the rest of the community. But, I appreciate the attention to my questions from such a skilled bread baker.
So the big aha for me was the info on the dutch oven. I thought I read everything carefully (er, enough) but I missed the crucial info about the dutch oven. Our DO is over 4 quarts and I didn't see the instructions about how to modify it. So will either do the foil ring or get a smaller DO before my next bake.
My dough was stretchy and elastic - if anything I was worried it had too much water but it did look like what was pictured and, again, the rise between folds seemed significant to me , but what do I know?
Other questions about the starter, while I have you:
1. If I put it straight into the fridge after feeding as described in the book, does it have to sit for a whole week or can I pull it out sooner?
2. The starter I now have in the fridge has a weird "split," where there's a straight horizontal line of bubbly stuff running across the clear container about 3/4 inches from the bottom. The starter takes up about 5 inches of space, so it looks like normalish (again what do I know?) starter at the bottom, then a thin line of bubbles on top of that, then normalish starter above the bubbles. it just looks wrong or weird. I'm wondering if I should toss it and start over?
Oooh. Heather. I had a feeling that might have been it since you had so many other things in your favor. Let's call that an easy fix!
Now quick answers about the starter:
1. No need to sit the full week; that's our recommended max for feeding or baking--at least at first. You can bake again the same day if you want.
2. Sounds like you've got a pretty wet starter going. That's probably water pooling and separating. Just stir or shake it and next time feed it a little more flour than water. (There are three texture photos in the book.) Everyone likes theirs a little different but you won't get any (or as much) separation when the starter is thicker. If it stops bubbling or smells like anything other than yeast mixed with a little alcohol, consider starting over.
Good luck and onward!
K
Thanks so much, Kerri. Strange that I missed a whole thing on the dutch oven but I think b/c my husband used our DO for Jim Lahey's bread, I just assumed it would work for this one. Plus my life is busy and hectic, so easy to miss some details. I should have time to make a loaf this weekend and will let you know how it goes - if that's OK - and any additional questions. Really appreciate it.
Well, I baked my second loaf on Friday in my new 2 quart dutch over and it came out pretty darn good. I think it will keep getting better the more I play around. Thanks much! p.s., I think a picture of what the prep for a larger DO with a foil ring might be helpful for the community.
Hi Mary, Kerri here. You mean in the pancakes, correct? We haven’t tried all options but generally suggest oat or cashew for their neutral-ish flavor. You may meed to add a little melted butter or oil (like canola, grapessed, or sunflower—that sort of thing if you’re also avoiding butter.) Let us know how it goes!
This may be a stupid question, but why do you use grams rather than more accessible measures such as teaspoons, ounces, cups, etc?
Kerri's technical response is great so I won't add to it. From a personal POV, since I got a good scale years ago I've become a whole-hearted convert to baking by weight, to where I won't buy a cookbook that's only by volume. I still use teaspoons for things like baking soda but using grams (even for water and other liquids) is so mind-blowingly easier that I won't switch back. I also have a separate gram scale that measures in tenths that I'd bought for coffee and tea measures that I now use for yeast and salt for bread baking, especially since the latter can vary in volume by type and brand.
Side note: I've even started using the scale when I make hot cereal, e.g., Bob's Red Mill products. They give the ratio of water:cereal in cups, and it pretty much always left unabsorbed water. Starting with the cup measures I measured it out in grams and shifted the numbers around a bit until I have the perfect amounts (which I wrote on the bag with a Sharpie).
Not a stupid question at all! It does taking some getting used to but scales are an inexpensive kitchen tool you'll use for other things if you have one.
Volume isn't as accurate way to measure ingredients for baking, especially with whole grains, since how you spoon and measure flour can compact or fluff going into the cup. More nuanced differences too: it can absorb moisture (or dry out as it oxidizes) and different brands are milled slightly differently. We included a sidebar on how to convert. Hope this helps explain the reasoning.
I have a scale and use for all forms of cooking and food preparation. The tare feature means you use a lot fewer measuring implements and have less clean up. A scale is also useful for measuring items that are sticky or semi-solid, e.g. yogurt, mayo, shortening. It is also useful for consistently measuring items that vary a lot in volume depending on handling, e.g. fresh herbs like basil. King Arthur has a good Ingredient Weight Chart in the LEARN section of their website that is quite comprehensive.
Hi Mark & Kerri, I love your book & as I have my own whole wheat starter (without yeast), how much of my starter should I use, & do I still need to make a jump starter? Is your jump starter the same as a levain?
Hi Heather! Kerri here on our behalf. Thank you for your support of the book and whole grain baking! You should be able to use your own whole wheat starter--as long as it lives in the refrigerator, and you feed it as directed in the recipe when you take it out to bake something. And you're right...the jumpstarter is like a preferment like a levain. Our process is different than other methods and works best when you follow the timing as described in the different recipes. If you don't have a 2-quart oven-proof pot to bake the Bittman Bread and the similar boules, then in Chapter 2 there's a workaround for how to fit larger pots with a foil ring to keep the dough from spreading before doming when you start in the cold oven. I keep an eye on comments here and check emails to the main box frequently so keep us posted please!
I think I made my jumpstarter with stale yeast :-( Do I need to start over again or is there a way to salvage my jumpstarter with fresh yeast?
Hi Neomi, Not to worry. Mark has a shortcut method to make starter without having to bake a starter white-flour loaf. And it works great with less than a packet of non-expired instant yeast.
But first, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing:
The "starter" is the sourdough that gently bubbles away in the fridge. In all the recipes you use the starter--combined with flour and liquid (usually water)--to make the "jumpstarter" that ferments at room temperature for several hours (as described in each of the recipes). After you remove some starter for the jumpstarter, the recipes directions explain how to feed the starter before returning it to the refrigerator where it bubbles away until your next bake.
So here's the link:
https://www.bittmanproject.com/p/how-to-make-starter-the-easy-way
You can start a new starter with whole wheat flour and be baking a Bittman Bread or anything else in the book in just a couple days. Keep us posted!
Hi Kerri, No worry about the name misspell, it happens all the time and people mispronounce it even more than that! ;-) I'm starting a new starter with the recipe you shared, just in case the issue is with the original starter. Fingers crossed. Three questions: 1. What do you usually do with the hooch? Pour it off, mix it back in, make a cocktail (ew)...? 2. Part of the problem may indeed be that I was using a bigger pot and I'm not ready to spring for a 2-quart Lodge yet (though sorely tempted). Do you have any pics of this foil "ring"? I'm having trouble imagining it. 3. Love the starter pancake idea but my spouse and I prefer savory. Could we use the same Bittman Bread pancake recipe but sub salt for the sugar?? I know he has another savory pancake recipe in the book but that one seems different. Thank you so much!
Hi Naomi. Answers to your questions!
--I'm putting links to two photos of the foil ring at the top of this thread and pinning it because others might also find them useful. Good idea but we can't post photos in the threads, just links so these are up on Google Drive.
--After the starter gets going and moves to the fridge you shouldn't have to discard often if at all if you bake once a week or so. Before that it's not going to be super active so the chemical leavening in the pancake recipe in the book is a good idea. To make it savory just skip the sugar and increase the salt to say "two pinches" or about 1 teaspoon. You fold a cup or so of chopped cooked vegetables into the batter if you'd like, provided they're not wet or saucy. I do encourage you to try the big savory pancake and it's variations. More like a crisp-on-the-outside-custardy-on-inside flatbread with stuff in it.
Thank you! Fantastic. Savory pancakes yummmm. Planning to try baking the Bittman Bread again this weekend with the new starter, fingers crossed!
Keep us posted. In case you haven't considered this, once your starter is bubbling on the counter you should feed it and move it to the fridge until the weekend. Otherwise at room temp, you'll be feeding and discarding daily until your first bake.
Okay, I got to bake the Bittman Bread this weekend and it turned out much better! Since I wasn't scientific about it, it was either the new starter with not-expired yeast and/or the smaller pot (I found one I could use). It still doesn't look quite as pretty or as domed as the ones in the pictures but WAY better than the "biscotti" bread last time ;-) Thank you for your help! Also, I've made the Little Spoon Farm sourdough discard crackers twice now and they are delicious! Thank you for the recommendation.
Oh yes that's what I meant, my "starter." Thank you! I went through the whole process from 'Bittman Bread' and my first loaf was okay (the one I used to make the starter) but didn't ever look like the pictures (tasted great!) Then I tried my second loaf with 100% whole wheat flour and it ended up looking like biscotti. I wish I could upload a picture, it's kind of hilarious. I checked and my Red Star yeast packets have definitely expired (6 mos past date). Although, when I did the yeast test this afternoon with sugar and 1/2 c warm water it did puff up to 1 c. Can yeast be semi-expired?? My starter does bubble but it's kind of a "meh" bubbling. Thank you so much for responding!
Apologies for misspelling your name yesterday...was working with my big thumbs from my phone!
Thank you for the detail, Naomi. Mmmm a biscotti doesn't sound at all right! You're using a 2-quart pot (or fitting a larger pot with a foil ring)? If you still run into challenges after you get a new starter going, be sure to check out the troubleshooting questions we developed. Here's the link handy:
https://www.bittmanproject.com/p/bittman-bread-anniversary
Thanks so much!
I’m looking forward to my first loaf this evening or tomorrow. I just finished mixing my first jump starter and it’s just now in a wide bottom bowl. I know you mention to cover it to prevent a crust from forming. (My starter formed a crust.) Do you have any guidance/tricks for the best way to cover the jump starter in this large open bowl? Should the plastic or the damp towel come in contact with the starter or should there be an air space? Thanks!
Hi Ginny. And Happy New Year Everyone!
Congratulations on beginning your first loaf! For covering your bowl during the development of the jumpstarter and dough, just draping a wet towel or a sheet or two of plastic over the rim will do the trick. The dough will probably stick if you press down too hard to try to seal the dough without air but with plastic you can sort of line the inside of the bowl closer to the dough if that works best for you.
The starter does best in the fridge in a sealed container. You can adjust the consistency by adding more or less water during feeding, too. See the photos on page 95 at the end of “All About Feeding Your Starter.”
If you happen to stay at a hotel/motel, grab the (packaged) shower caps if they have them. They make great REUSABLE bowl covers.
Just baked my first whole wheat loaf. Came out tasting darn good and good looking too! I have just one question: my loaf seems too dense when compared to the pictures in the book and maybe not quite as crusty. I think I can improve on the crust by baking a bit longer on the rack, outside the Dutch oven. I am not sure, however, how to make the bread a bit lighter, fluffier. Any suggestions? BTW, the first, white flour read was great, just the right taste and density.
Hi Marcel, Thanks for your enthusiasm and for updating the community.
First, a bubble to pop: 100% whole wheat bread is always going to be totally different than a loaf made from 100% whole wheat flour. Because the bran and fiber have never been sifted out, the taste and density will not be that same kind of mild and fluffy. We obviously favor whole wheat. And you can and will get more rise and spring--like the bread shown in the book.
You're using a 2-quart pot, correct? Or the foil ring fix for a larger pot discussed in the box on page 41?
Are you using a fairly mainstream whole wheat flour (we talk more about this in Chapter 2) or a specialty flour? If the latter, they can be challenging. Also be sure to check out the section on Reading the Dough on page 84.
If the former than you can try pushing the water a little bit. Be sure to read the captions with the photos in the sections on folding Mark and/or my way. They should give you an idea about how to tell when the dough is properly wet.
Another direction is to try the Mostly White Sourdough Bread variation on page 81. That might be more to your taste--or maybe you'll gradually build back to 100% whole wheat. Or maybe that will be your jam.
Keep us posted?
Hi Kerri, Thanks for your reply. I did use a 2 quart Dutch oven and King Arthur whole wheat flour. I will try your suggestion of pushing the water and report back.
No one has answered mine and Melissa’s concern about the size of the stored starter required. Is a 250 g starter really necessary? If like us you bake every other week, that’s still a lot of discard, even it you keep the starter in the fridge, as I do. I currently keep about 90g, and when I am going to bake take it out, add 50 g water/50 g flour, use 100 to bake a loaf and put the rest back in the fridge . This has worked for a year, producing good loafs and wasting less starter. Am I doing something wrong? What would you recommend?
Hi Peter. Thanks for following up. I put the answer toward the end of my long response on Nov 28, but maybe that can be clearer: If you only keep 90g you won’t have enough to make even the Bittman Bread; the recipes require 100 to 200 grams starter, depending on what you’re making. That is assuming baking/feeding every week to 10 days. If you feed regularly in between bakes then yes, you will be able to operate on a different margin. The goal is no discarding (unless you’re just starting the starter or trying to revive a long neglected starter). Hope this explains it better.
Just though of this...One potentially confusing thing that might be different than your usual process: With our method, we take starter out to make the “jumpstarter” then feed the starter to replace what we took. Feeding the starter BEFORE removing some for the bake would dilute the quantity of starter used in our recipes while increasing the flour and water. Does that logic sound right?
Haven't seen this question yet. Your book is brilliant and so helpful. My first couple of loaves have come out great. I'd love to get what you call a "broad-bottomed bowl" like the one you use in the book. I have looked a lot, and haven't seen any like the one shown in your pictures. Any suggestions where to buy one? Amazon and Etsy show nothing at all similar. Thanks.
Hi Steve. Wowie! What terrific news! It’s a large pasta serving bowl. Usually they’re broader than mixing bowls and it doesn’t need to be more than 3 inches deep. As long as it’s 8-9 inches across (the size of my non-photogenic vintage bowl at home) you’re fine. The bowl at the shoot was porcelain and about 12 inches. Got it online but can’t remember if it was Amazon or like Pottery Barn. Basic tho.
Thanks so much for your most helpful reply. Knowing to look for a pasta serving bowl rather than a regular bread mixing bowl seems to be the trick. Again, I think your book is fantastic. The photos and instructions are so beautifully done, and I'm having much more success with my starter doing it your way. A real game changer.
I just bought the Bittman Bread Cookbook and am excited to try the folding technique...but am confused by the directions in the book about "folding the dough Mark's way." When you "repeat the folding action going the other direction" (page 64) what does that mean exactly? My guesses:
1. You pat into rectangle, fold into thirds lengthewise, then pat into rectangle and do again and THEN fold in thirds into a square and then pat into a ball?
2. You fold thirds lengthwise, fold thirds into square, then pat into rectangle and repeat and then pat into ball?
Not sure which of these to do and either way not sure what "going in the other direction" would mean. Help please!
HI G. I'm brand new to bread but I think you've got it. I was nervous about it, but then I told myself it's only bread and if I don't do it exactly as pictured, I'll get it close enough, right? After my last fold (2 hours into folding - still getting over that one!), I just flipped the square in my hands and it basically turned itself into a ball. Just make sure you do the 2qt dutch oven or use a foil ring in a bigger DO - the section on DOs is in the beginning of the kitchen tools section and not in the detailed instructions with the bread. Hope this helps!
Hi G.Epstein, Sorry this wasn’t cleared! Good question because it lets me say this: The directions really don’t matter. This dough is almost indestructible and not at all like turning puff pasty. You are correct…Mark does two successive press-and-letter folds, in generally perpendicular directions. Then tucks the edges under to reshape the ball for rest. Hope this helps and thanks for taking our bread for a fold!
*clearer!
Can the pancake recipe used to make waffles?
Sort of. The waffle recipe in the book takes the same proportions, separates the eggs, and adds lots more melted butter.
OK. I bought the book and can’t wait to bake my first loaf. I currently make mostly white sourdough and am looking forward to the change to whole grain. However, I’ve read the parts of the book on the starter and have a few questions. So you recommend storing 250 g of starter, correct?That seems like a lot. Mine is currently 100g. What would you recommend to do if you don’t bake one week? Take out half the starter and refresh? I usually bake a loaf every other week, so a 250 g starter would seem to entail more waste. Is there any way to make the jumpstarter beginning with a smaller stored starter? Thank you
I want to second Peter's comment. As a single person, I can't make a loaf of bread each week. Although I would love to! So it feels like making sourdough bread involves too much waste. How little starter can I safely maintain?
I keep mine in the fridge so that I don't have to feed it daily (every 7-10 days or so). But there are a lot of recipes out there for starter discard; one of my favorites is discard crackers: https://littlespoonfarm.com/sourdough-discard-crackers/
Also remember that in many baking recipes you can replace some of the flour and water with an equal amount of starter. E.g, if a banana bread uses 200g flour and 60g water, you can use, say, 50g discard and deduct 25 grams water and 25 grams flour.
Since getting my starter going almost two years ago I haven't thrown away any of it.
... just to clarify, the starter discard is there for flavor, not leavening, so it doesn't need to be active. I keep a separate jar in my fridge for the discard, to grab as-needed.
When and how does the optional 24 hours of hibernation fit into the pancake recipe?
Hi Brit. With this and all the recipes in the book you decide when/if you want to hibernate and for how long up to 24 hours. So the process fits in whatever schedule you happen to need on any given circumstance.
With pancakes and a couple other recipes where you add dairy and/or eggs before cooking, it’s better to so as directed “when you’re ready…”. But you can hibernate any time before that step.